Licensing and source models

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Licensing and source models

Postby Julius » 25 Jun 2010, 06:56

First of all, a big kudos for what you are doing here. The models looks nothing short of professional. With this (and the new terrain engine) WZ 3.0 will look spectacular!

Just two short questions:

I assume your work will be also placed under the GPL like the original models (technically one could argue btw that you even have to do so, since you are basing your works on the same design ;) )?

Will you also make the high-poly source models which you use to bake the AO and normalmaps available under the GPL (again technically there is the "source" clause in the GPL which would mean you have to do so also)?

Just to make sure & to avoid sounding too demanding... if you decided to do it otherwise I am not going to make a big fuss about it ;)
I am just asking, and I think it would be great if everything was released under the GPL!

Keep up the great work, and I will for sure make a nice article about your project on the FreeGamer blog once you reach a presentable state ;)

Edit: just saw your FAQ (got to this forum directly from the warzone message-board), good to read that you are using the GPLv2 (with the or later clause?). Still would be nice to know if you plan to release the high-poly source files.
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Safety0ff » 25 Jun 2010, 12:49

Hmm, the licensing is a little confusing.

The FAQ wording should Really be changed, but from what I understand from it, the .obj and .3ds files are released under CC-BY-SA.
Julius wrote:Will you also make the high-poly source models which you use to bake the AO and normalmaps available under the GPL (again technically there is the "source" clause in the GPL which would mean you have to do so also)?
The .wz format is simply the zip format (with the extension changed), and so you can get the "source" by unziping the .wz file.

IANAL, but in my interpretation the high poly models do not consist of "source" for the low poly meshes, they are simply tools that were used to create them (and so can have any license).
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Julius » 25 Jun 2010, 13:37

Technically the high-poly models are "source" files of the textures (and not the low-poly models ;) ).

But I don't see a good reason why those should not be released, too. They might be a good base to for other mods and such.

IMHO dual licensing the under both the GPLv2+ and CC-BY-SA is currently the best method for FOSS games.
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Safety0ff » 25 Jun 2010, 17:31

Julius wrote:(again technically there is the "source" clause in the GPL which would mean you have to do so also)?
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.htm ... perViolate
Julius wrote:Technically the high-poly models are "source" files of the textures (and not the low-poly models ;) ).
Either way, it doesn't make much sense (to me) to apply GPL reasoning to art.
Julius wrote:But I don't see a good reason why those should not be released, too. They might be a good base to for other mods and such.
No argument here, I just think that they should release what they want to.:)
Julius wrote:IMHO dual licensing the under both the GPLv2+ and CC-BY-SA is currently the best method for FOSS games.
Yea, because they license the code as GPL and the art as CC-BY-SA.
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Julius » 25 Jun 2010, 19:23

I hate getting into these technical discussions, but strictly speaking the original designs were released under the GPL, thus all derivative works have to be under the GPL also, and this includes all possible "source files". Thus your link to the gnu page does not apply here since they are not the exclusive original authors.
And while we are on linking to the gnu page:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.htm ... anSoftware
The GPL can be perfectly applied to art content also, in fact it is the only way to "force" people to release source files too, as they define the source code as "the preferred form of the work for making changes in it".
This would IANAL apply the the high-poly model which are the source of the baked textures. The CC-BY-SA does not do this at all. If I would for example release a model under the CC-BY-SA someone could make significant changes to it and then render a movie with it, and all he would have to release under the SA option would be the movie file itself, and not my modified model. With the GPL he would have to release that too.

But for all it's worth, and due to technical compatibility reasons the models should be either released dual licensed with GPL and CC-BY-SA (since they are not compatible with each other, e.g. you can't mix GPL and CC-BY-SA work in the same piece of art unless one of them is dual licensed) or with a more permissive license like also mentioned in the FAQ (CC0 f.e.). Not licensing the models under the GPL also might lead to legal complications with the original Warzone2100 copyright holders (which is however unlikely I have to admit :) )

But yeah,I don't want to sound like the license nazi around here :ugeek: I would be just interested in having the high-poly source files available for modifications as well :mrgreen:
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Safety0ff » 25 Jun 2010, 20:39

Julius wrote:I would be just interested in having the high-poly source files available for modifications as well :mrgreen:
I'm not an artist/directly part of AR, so it's really between you and them.
Julius wrote:But yeah,I don't want to sound like the license nazi around here :ugeek:
Nah, it is a good discussion. I'd continue if I had time. Good luck!
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Jorzi » 27 Jun 2010, 11:26

The artwork made in this mod is not derivative of the original models or textures, only inspired by them. All the textures and models are our own work and created from scratch. Original models are used as reference only. We are not obliged to release anything, but what we release will be licensed so that it is compatible with warzone.
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Rman Virgil » 28 Jun 2010, 08:42

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Jorzi wrote:The artwork made in this mod is not derivative of the original models or textures, only inspired by them. All the textures and models are our own work and created from scratch. Original models are used as reference only. We are not obliged to release anything, but what we release will be licensed so that it is compatible with warzone.


Yay ! Spoken like a true artist. :D

As for the comments that triggered this response I fall squarely in Mark Helprin's camp & share, in its totality, the PoV he so eloquently covers in his 2009 work aptly entitled Digital Barbarism. I daresay, "Atlas Shrugged" comes to mind metaphorically as the ultimate resistance to "Digital Barbarism". :!:

- Regards, RV 8-)
.
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Macuser » 28 Jun 2010, 21:46

BTW welcome to the forums :)
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Rman Virgil » 29 Jun 2010, 13:17

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Macuser wrote:BTW welcome to the forums :)


Thanks macuser. :)

Nothing gets my goat more than hearing the word "force" applied to artists and their work.

To me it's an oxymoron. One of my favorite T-shirts is black with bright yellow graphics that reads: "Artists make lousy slaves." I wear it proudly. :D

I do believe in non-profit giving but please do not even try to dictate how you want that gesture of good faith & generosity to take shape. Just make it a real nice request & I'll more than likely oblige.

- Regards, RV 8-)
.
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Julius » 30 Jun 2010, 13:34

Rman Virgil wrote:.
I do believe in non-profit giving but please do not even try to dictate how you want that gesture of good faith & generosity to take shape. Just make it a real nice request & I'll more than likely oblige.


That's why I don't like this license discussions (and probably shouldn't have started one here *slaps himself*), but this doesn't actually have anything to do with generosity, but those are hard legal facts enforceable (I know the bad word again) in court!

And being inspired by a design is legally speaking also making a derivative work of it, that's why you can't put a drawing of lets say something that looks very much like Spiderman under the GPL, since that design is actually copyrighted.

Which brings me to my last point... the GPL is all about hardcore copyrights (and protecting those rights), that is why your reference to the "Digital Barbarism" Book is completely nonsensical as far as I can tell from what information on that book is available on the internet.
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Re: Licensing and source models

Postby Jorzi » 30 Jun 2010, 14:06

The spiderman is a copyrighted design design, unlike the machinegun or the mini-rocket artillery which are so generic they cannot be copyrighted. Same goes for cannons, sensors, repair turrets and anything else I have made in this mod. You can find lots of turrets and weapons in different games and in the real world that look a bit like these.The names of the turrets are also free to use for any design I want since they are not really names but generic nouns. Therefore, since these models are not modified versions of the original models but made from scratch, and only have similar designs and names, their copyright belongs only to me and no one else.

I know that you propably only want to inform us of possible legal troubles, but don't worry. We're pretty much on the safe side concerning legal rights.
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